You guys “looked out the window of his former bedroom — it’s on the 13th floor”…
I’m sure you would have had different views if you had lived in those deconstructing houses.
I would like to support that “preserve” the old but good buildings, but you can’t stop the city from a healthy and necessary development. You can’t enjoy the convenient and vivid “expat” life in Shanghai while dreaming the the mass who are living here for generations stay in the old routine forever.
Without the bloody development, shanghai wouldn’t be the same, great place you like today.
Go to Europe. Go to New York City. You will see that it is possible to have “healthy development” and historic preservation. But I guess that depends on what your definition of healthy development is. Is it throwing up poorly built, inefficient and ugly apartment buildings in the same place every 15 or 20 years? Most new apartment buildings here start falling apart after five years or so. Leave them around much longer than that and they become eyesores. Inside and out. Believe me, I know. I live in one … on the 13th floor.
On the other hand, Shanghai’s early 20th Century architecture that is still standing has, without proper care and maintenance, managed to retain its charm. Its presence is what makes Shanghai “the great place [I] like today.” Now, are the living conditions in Shanghai’s old neighborhoods acceptable? No. Far from it. Improvements that should have been made over time were, for whatever reason, not. Does that mean we should just knock them all down? It shouldn’t. Dont blame the buildings for human error. How about we spend some of the millions we’re spending on new construction to preserve old construction. I have a feeling we’d get more years out of our investment that way.
And this is not just about the buildings, it’s about the people in them. Sure, they deserve modern living condidtions. But they don’t deserve to be kicked out of a lifelong home, to be ripped apart from lifelong friends and neighbors in the name of your “healthy development.” They don’t deserve to be given a fraction of what their property is worth and forced to move to a remote suburb that is Shanghai in name only.
But what we’re dealing with here is largely a cultural difference. Modern Asia has a habit of tearing down and building up. That’s just the way it is. Who am I to try and force my Western values on a country that has different ones? This city belongs to the Chinese — or, at least, the Chinese government. If they want to tear down its history, that’s their decision.
But I’m still allowed to voice my disapproval.
Dan
P.S. So I guess you don’t know anything about the chair?
The only way that ‘old Asia’ gets preserved is when ‘new Asia’ realizes that it can be profitable to do so. In S’pore, they’ve made a number of historical sites open for private owners, the ‘Chijmes’ ex-convent now f&b area is one of the most outstanding examples, but there are others. Here, similarly, the ‘Face ’ bar and a few other places are in historical buildings renovated for private-sector use. My flat isn’t ancient, it’s 1941, but they renovated the inside and are renting it at a price that all of my co-workers think is murderous for the area (though its still far cheaper than S’pore). The best way to preserve old Shanghai is to show that you’re willing to pay for it. The chair purchase was a good way to do that, even if you were mocked. Next, try getting out of the high-rise and move into a place with ancient heating and plumbing (or, better still, an old building with new plumbing).
About the people in the buildings, that’s a tragedy. After spendiing a few generations in a family home, that family should earn some property rights. But the state owns all of the land here. If they could sell instead of being evicted, they may not mind the relocation nearly as much - central-Shanghai property prices are nearly at the peak of the price bubble, this is a great time to sell. For a family below middle-class levels, it could be a windfall.
On Apr 9, 2005 11:28 PM, Ryan Petersen said:
The public restrooms in Shanghai would certianly benefit from a chair like this. I am so tired of squatting, I could tolerate a few splinters in my arse!
On Thursday night before my latin dance classes at the Worker’s Cultural Palace on People’s Square, I walked up to the roof of the building. As I looked towards the Bund, I noticed that there is a neighborhood of two-story, tile-roofed houses, not two blocks off of the Square. I told John today that my next project is to find out how to rent a house in there, and how much it would cost a month. My contract on this (17th floor, what a coincidence) probably 1970’s suburban apartment runs out in October, and I’d really like to move into a place I can put a little elbow grease into and feel proud of. Just like your chair.
Which I know nothing about.
On Apr 10, 2005 12:35 AM, arale said:
Dan,
I went to Europe, I went to NYC. Yes, you’re right - it’s always right to preserve history, and it’s always right to respect people. You’re also right that there is culture difference. The 5,000-year history dose leave a huge gap between western (or, American) and eastern value. Maybe I’m wrong on the definition of “healthy development”, but this is not only happening in Shanghai-is there anyone reading this from Boston? I like Boston, I mean, I LOVE Boston, but I’ve never said anything about the Big Dig project there…
Speaking with hands crossed is much easier than working with sleeves rolled up. I don’t like those ugly apartment buildings either, and watching the hard life of migrating workers makes me cry sometimes.
But it is developing. It is a city with almost the shortest history in China. Yes, it is polluted, and crowded, but those porjects put all of us together toward the better future.
No. I don’t know the history of the chair. My grandparent had one like that 25 years ago, in the restroom of their old house.
-arale
On Apr 10, 2005 6:33 AM, LW said:
So what are you going to do with this chair? Obviously you can’t sit on it.
On Apr 10, 2005 8:42 AM, big wang said:
Hello, first time comment. Dan, do you know the purpose of that antique you just purchased?
[T]ry getting out of the high-rise and move into a place with ancient heating and plumbing …
My high-rise — built in the 1980s, I believe — does seem to have ancient plumbing and heating. Does that count?
Arale,
My grandparent had one like that 25 years ago, in the restroom of their old house.
Exactly what was the chair used for in your grandparents’ bathroom. Is it what I can imagine it was used for? Did I buy a “toilet seat”?
LW,
So what are you going to do with this chair? Obviously you can’t sit on it.
Well, the goal is to fix the chair and actually give it a seat. That is the task I am looking for advice on.
Big Wang,
Dan, do you know the purpose of that antique you just purchased?
Nope. Do you? Honestly, I’m not even sure if it’s an antique.
On Apr 13, 2005 8:03 PM, arale said:
Dan,
My grandparents used that as “toilet seat”, but I’m not sure if it was made “specially” for this purpose. I thought they just made use of a broken chair.
On Apr 16, 2005 12:58 PM, TDre said:
Dan,
The style is comparable to American Victorian and Eastlake style, probably circa 1900s and made out of solid walnut with wicker top. You can re-weave the seat with fiber rush or wicker or cover it with hard leather/press board or the easy way, just cover the bottom with plywood and cover the top with a cushion with strings attached to the chair. Don’t forget to tighten the chair before recaning. If you don’t have clamps, you can tighten it with ropes and let the glue drys for 24 hours.
the following site is very helpful, http://www.countryseat.com/faqseats.htm
11 Comments
You guys “looked out the window of his former bedroom — it’s on the 13th floor”…
I’m sure you would have had different views if you had lived in those deconstructing houses.
I would like to support that “preserve” the old but good buildings, but you can’t stop the city from a healthy and necessary development. You can’t enjoy the convenient and vivid “expat” life in Shanghai while dreaming the the mass who are living here for generations stay in the old routine forever.
Without the bloody development, shanghai wouldn’t be the same, great place you like today.
It’s only my two cents.
Take care.
Arale,
Go to Europe. Go to New York City. You will see that it is possible to have “healthy development” and historic preservation. But I guess that depends on what your definition of healthy development is. Is it throwing up poorly built, inefficient and ugly apartment buildings in the same place every 15 or 20 years? Most new apartment buildings here start falling apart after five years or so. Leave them around much longer than that and they become eyesores. Inside and out. Believe me, I know. I live in one … on the 13th floor.
On the other hand, Shanghai’s early 20th Century architecture that is still standing has, without proper care and maintenance, managed to retain its charm. Its presence is what makes Shanghai “the great place [I] like today.” Now, are the living conditions in Shanghai’s old neighborhoods acceptable? No. Far from it. Improvements that should have been made over time were, for whatever reason, not. Does that mean we should just knock them all down? It shouldn’t. Dont blame the buildings for human error. How about we spend some of the millions we’re spending on new construction to preserve old construction. I have a feeling we’d get more years out of our investment that way.
And this is not just about the buildings, it’s about the people in them. Sure, they deserve modern living condidtions. But they don’t deserve to be kicked out of a lifelong home, to be ripped apart from lifelong friends and neighbors in the name of your “healthy development.” They don’t deserve to be given a fraction of what their property is worth and forced to move to a remote suburb that is Shanghai in name only.
But what we’re dealing with here is largely a cultural difference. Modern Asia has a habit of tearing down and building up. That’s just the way it is. Who am I to try and force my Western values on a country that has different ones? This city belongs to the Chinese — or, at least, the Chinese government. If they want to tear down its history, that’s their decision.
But I’m still allowed to voice my disapproval.
Dan
P.S. So I guess you don’t know anything about the chair?
The only way that ‘old Asia’ gets preserved is when ‘new Asia’ realizes that it can be profitable to do so. In S’pore, they’ve made a number of historical sites open for private owners, the ‘Chijmes’ ex-convent now f&b area is one of the most outstanding examples, but there are others. Here, similarly, the ‘Face ’ bar and a few other places are in historical buildings renovated for private-sector use. My flat isn’t ancient, it’s 1941, but they renovated the inside and are renting it at a price that all of my co-workers think is murderous for the area (though its still far cheaper than S’pore). The best way to preserve old Shanghai is to show that you’re willing to pay for it. The chair purchase was a good way to do that, even if you were mocked. Next, try getting out of the high-rise and move into a place with ancient heating and plumbing (or, better still, an old building with new plumbing).
About the people in the buildings, that’s a tragedy. After spendiing a few generations in a family home, that family should earn some property rights. But the state owns all of the land here. If they could sell instead of being evicted, they may not mind the relocation nearly as much - central-Shanghai property prices are nearly at the peak of the price bubble, this is a great time to sell. For a family below middle-class levels, it could be a windfall.
The public restrooms in Shanghai would certianly benefit from a chair like this. I am so tired of squatting, I could tolerate a few splinters in my arse!
On Thursday night before my latin dance classes at the Worker’s Cultural Palace on People’s Square, I walked up to the roof of the building. As I looked towards the Bund, I noticed that there is a neighborhood of two-story, tile-roofed houses, not two blocks off of the Square. I told John today that my next project is to find out how to rent a house in there, and how much it would cost a month. My contract on this (17th floor, what a coincidence) probably 1970’s suburban apartment runs out in October, and I’d really like to move into a place I can put a little elbow grease into and feel proud of. Just like your chair.
Which I know nothing about.
Dan,
I went to Europe, I went to NYC. Yes, you’re right - it’s always right to preserve history, and it’s always right to respect people. You’re also right that there is culture difference. The 5,000-year history dose leave a huge gap between western (or, American) and eastern value. Maybe I’m wrong on the definition of “healthy development”, but this is not only happening in Shanghai-is there anyone reading this from Boston? I like Boston, I mean, I LOVE Boston, but I’ve never said anything about the Big Dig project there…
Speaking with hands crossed is much easier than working with sleeves rolled up. I don’t like those ugly apartment buildings either, and watching the hard life of migrating workers makes me cry sometimes.
But it is developing. It is a city with almost the shortest history in China. Yes, it is polluted, and crowded, but those porjects put all of us together toward the better future.
No. I don’t know the history of the chair. My grandparent had one like that 25 years ago, in the restroom of their old house.
-arale
So what are you going to do with this chair? Obviously you can’t sit on it.
Hello, first time comment. Dan, do you know the purpose of that antique you just purchased?
Myrick,
[T]ry getting out of the high-rise and move into a place with ancient heating and plumbing …
My high-rise — built in the 1980s, I believe — does seem to have ancient plumbing and heating. Does that count?
Arale,
My grandparent had one like that 25 years ago, in the restroom of their old house.
Exactly what was the chair used for in your grandparents’ bathroom. Is it what I can imagine it was used for? Did I buy a “toilet seat”?
LW,
So what are you going to do with this chair? Obviously you can’t sit on it.
Well, the goal is to fix the chair and actually give it a seat. That is the task I am looking for advice on.
Big Wang,
Dan, do you know the purpose of that antique you just purchased?
Nope. Do you? Honestly, I’m not even sure if it’s an antique.
Dan,
My grandparents used that as “toilet seat”, but I’m not sure if it was made “specially” for this purpose. I thought they just made use of a broken chair.
Dan,
The style is comparable to American Victorian and Eastlake style, probably circa 1900s and made out of solid walnut with wicker top. You can re-weave the seat with fiber rush or wicker or cover it with hard leather/press board or the easy way, just cover the bottom with plywood and cover the top with a cushion with strings attached to the chair. Don’t forget to tighten the chair before recaning. If you don’t have clamps, you can tighten it with ropes and let the glue drys for 24 hours.
the following site is very helpful,
http://www.countryseat.com/faqseats.htm